Bloodpressure Smoking v.s Snuffing

Hi Guys,

I have been bad and started smoking again.... and my BP was up again ( 150/110 ). I just out of rage threw away my smokes.

Do any of you have any honest stories about how your BP went down after stopping with smoking but keep of using snuff ? I'm worried I might have to quit it all together ( Nicotine in any form). I'm 35 and I don't want a hart attack /stroke on 45. I just need to see that BP lowered.. any suggestion are welcome. I stopped drinking already for 99% and I'm going to pick up sports.

I don't want to be negative on the Forum and I know it sort off was discussed already in other short topics.. but time has passed and maybe you guys have other/updated stories now.

Many thanks!

Michel

OscarWabbit

I suffered with high blood pressure and was on medication to control it.

Since stopping smoking over a year ago, my blood pressure is totally normal. Snuff has no adverse affects on my blood pressure. I have almost nearly entirely stopped drinking alcohol too. It made me a horrible person.

[Deleted User]

Thanks Oscar - I have the same issue with alcohol, exactly my reason to quit too, and the BP thing. Thanks man :)

bigmick

My BP went from borderline high to mid-range normal when I quit smoking. I quit with snus and wasn't using snuff yet...but it has stayed normal since I started snuff, and even my 2 bowl a day pipe habit hasn't shown any negative effects. 

 Having said that nicotine is a stimulant and will raise your pulse and BP. So I suggest careful monitoring to get an idea what products cause what effects. It may be that cigs raise your BP to risky levels, but the nicotine from snuff won't. Especially in moderation.

furious

Also a HBP sufferer. Heart disease runs rampant in my family with most of the men dropping dead around age 50. Consequently, I am paranoid about having the "big one" anytime between now (I am 35) and then. My bp is controlled fairly well with meds (currently taking 3), but I would like to lower it further. Am going on diet as I need to lose about 30 pounds, which should have a major effect on it. I, too, cut out drinking and already feel much better. I smoke a pipe, and quit cigs years ago. As we now are aware, it is the inhalation of burning tobacco that does most of the damage to the heart. Snuffers and pipe smoking have not shown any deleterious effects on life expectancy according to many published studies, including the 1964 Surgeon General's report.

nuusku

nicotine increases slightly blood pressure but I bet snuffing less than inhaling tar etc poisons in smoke. I'm in pretty good shape and my rest pulse is getting lower and lower but after some HC delightful snuffing I can feel the change in my body.
if there is mental stress and unhealthy living habits no doupt that tobacco can be the final nail to the coffin. but if high blood pressure comes from mental stress snuffing might help relieving that? everybody is a bit different so impossible to say anything for sure.. . 

do some yoga ;) and meditation! that's helping for sure!

devilock76

From what I understand snuff and snus do raise blood pressure while the nicotine is in your system temporarily as they are vascoconstrictors.  Cigarettes and for that matter any inhaled tobacco do that plus more.  The inhaled smoke contains carbon  monoxide as well as all the other fun stuff that will reduce lung function.  If memory serves that reduced lung function will up BP, and it is not just while smoking but raise the overall baseline which then gets added to when nicotine is in the system.  When you quit smoking the lung function starts to get better and bit by bit that "baseline" goes down where the net effect of nicotine from other sources is "less pronounced".  I am not a doctor, just as a disclaimer.

Ken

Whalen

Yes ,snus and snuff will raise your blood pressure, I spent years on a monitor and know the effects quite well, but I refuse to quit. At 35, I would strongly advise you to seek medication, and or, other means to get yours under control. If I had followed this advice Ii could have avoided this nasty 12 inch scar down my chest. I use medication, diet, lots of exercise, along with snuff and snus in moderation. I recomend starting to monitor your pressure with an inexpensive, recording, BP cuff. Get a feel for what effects that snuff has on you, and make some choices. The damage from doing nothing is beyond bad, trust me. I did nothing, and now I have to live with doing more than I ever wanted. I chose snus over cigarets, harm reduction, snuff over bacon, harm reduction, And once a day I spit out my snus and walk the dog a mile or two at a good clip. I would be better off without nicotine, but there are things you can do to compromise.

The benefits of quitting smoking have been huge though. Smoking was killing me, period. I had a massive heart attack at 53, but suffered almost no long term damage do to fast intervention and some kick ass chewable aspirin! I feel better than I ever have, except for the pain from the surgery. Been four years now. Long time to live with this, My words to anyone with a risk factor is to get proactive now, 35 is a great time to make some changes that will have positive benefits. You are the one in charge of your health, get some advice from your doctor, and get to the gym. My 2 cents.

bob

devilock76 is right about carbon monoxide causing an increase in blood pressure. Carbon monoxide binds to the hemoglobin in your blood which is what oxygen binds to in blood. So inhaling smoke makes your blood less effective at carrying oxygen so your body has to push harder to get the same amount of oxygen while at the same time the heart is not able to get as much oxygen as it should. This not only raises blood pressure it does so over a long and protracted amount of time. Nicotine increase BP too so does caffine. The effects on the body of caffine and nicotine are very similar. Both increase BP so do a lot of things. If this will harm you I don't know. I don't know how bad your BP is. The thing is BP is a very serious killer. My non-medical suggestion is to do what you can to lower your blood pressure and talk to your doctor. I would ask what is your doctors advice about caffine? If he says no way on caffine then I'd say no way on snuff, if he says reduce caffine reduce nicotine. Just some thoughts. Not really sure if smokeless will harm you but ultimatily it is clearly safer in all regaurds to smoking cancer sticks. Even if it is bad for your bp it is still safer. I'd say trust your gut instinct and to do what you can to make the situation better.

Snuffster

If you are quitting because you think snuff leads you to smoke it's probably because - like a lot of people - you might not take enough to really experience the nicotine in snuff. Try taking a baked bean size pinch in each nostril as often as you would have a cigarette. It's only by using it like that that you get sufficient nicotine to compete with smoking.

If you really think you should cut out nicotine do exactly what Whalen says - get some medical advice and make some changes - but make them sustainable; it's no use quitting and then jumping straight into an insane training programme - you will just end up smoking again. And don't forget that we are not doctors.

furious

Great advice all. Particularly to whalen. I really appreciate hearing it from someone who has been there. I am on a low carb diet and I am slowly increasing exercise. Having a dog really helps me get out and take him for a walk. Plus I bring a pipe along so what's not to like about that!

OscarWabbit

There's a reason they call high BP the silent killer. No visible symptoms until the shit really hits the fan.

Also a thorough blood pressure check includes both arms. If your doctor only checks one arm ask him to check the other too.

Zanaspus

I can only cite my own experience, but while I was smoking and on meds my BP used to average about 150/95 Every visit since I changed to snus and snuff has averaged around 140/75 with the same meds.

PipenSnusnSnuff

I also have high blood pressure, controlled by medication.  When I was smoking, it was always a struggle to keep it under control, even with the meds.  Now I get normal readings every time.  (But I'm still on the meds.)

From what I've read of the available medical research, cigarette smoking causes an abrupt spike in blood pressure, and your BP can stay elevated for as long as an hour or two, after only one cigarette.  Yes, snus and snuff also raise BP, but much more gradually, and probably to a lesser degree than cigarettes.  It's still important to monitor and treat BP, but from what I can gather, it appears that snus and snuff are still safer than cigarettes.

JohnnyFriday

To ease the strain on your heart caused by the vasocontriction, which is the main contributor to your bp increase from tobacco products you can use a blood thinner.

Rather than drink, which I too like many of you used to have a problem with and have quit is to use counteractive drugs.

Chiefly, take aspirin, fish oil, and drink a glass of grape juice a day(real grape juice).   Not only do those things have blood thinning and BP improving qualities, but also the fish oil and aspirin can reduce your risk of heart attack and the effects of saturated fat on your vasculature. You shouldn't have to consult your doctor about adding those 3 things to your diet.

Happy and healthy snuffing gents.

snuffbrant

+1 for JohnnyFriday's recommendations.  I do not do the grape juice, in particular, but all three are good recommendations.  The only caution, of course, re: aspirin, is if you are currently taking blood pressure meds or blood thinners ... you may want to check in with the doc.  But my guess is if you are on blood thinners, your doc has discussed aspirin protocol with you.  Happy Health!

Juxtaposer

I mix cayenne pepper with a little water and drink. I take one quick gulp then chase it with a glass of pure water leaving no capsaicin in contact with my mouth. Simple and effective. 

PipenSnusnSnuff

I do the aspirin regimen also, but I switched from fish oil to flaxseed oil.  No awful fishy taste, and a lower environmental impact.  (The primary fish species used to make fish oil capsules is becoming endangered.)

snuffbrant

Hey PipenSnusnSnuff ... I do think there is debate on the efficacy of flaxseed nowadays ... I once took flaxseed as well ... Recent research has established that the conversion of flaxseed oil to EPA and DHA is completely inefficient and ineffective in humans, flaxseed does little to raise the body’s EPA levels and nothing to raise DHA levels. I get not liking the fishy taste ... i don't tend to get it as much with the brand Wholemega ... but, in this regard, to each his own, flax seed or fish oil.  But I only bring it up because just like all research - coffee, fats, wheat, carbohydrates, etc - relating to diet and health, information changes so quickly, even after years of all of us adopting a new recommendation.  I think the research on fish oil, though, is sound ... and is one of the best supplements any of us can take ... and should take, if not eat more fish.  Just my opinion.

kats

Interesting thread! 

Health screening at work... My BP went from a very respectable 118/85 last year... to 128/82 at this year's test.  Still respectable for someone of my age (approaching 52).  They want less than 130/85, or you are "at risk".  These readings are just a snapshot at one specific point in time and lots of factors can affect BP (including age and poor genetics - that's me)  I'm concerned that upper number is up 10 points.   The only real difference in my situation is one year older and snuff use (maybe up to 5x/day).  I was/still am light pipe/cigar smoker -maybe 3x/wk.  

NO, I'm not medically trained... but I think all the factors to consider are on a continuum of effect.  Light use = light effect... many factors, heavier use = heavier effect.  High numbers.... 130, sure, higher than the doc would like but not too bad... 150... much more concern!  ...and more need for more dramatic action to reduce BP  - or face the risk involved.

I do need to get check up with doctor soon - (the dreaded colonoscopy is past due :-S).  and we'll talk about aspirin, bp meds, nicotine & caffeine effects, diet, exercise, blah, blah, blah  etc... and I will decide the risk:reward action to pursue with his advice in mind.

JohnnyFriday

I attended a seminar about 4 years, ago and the researcher also stated that flax was basically of no value for omega 3s. However, used in icecream as say a granola institute is great.  I use it to make my thinking time a lot more productive ;).

Also on fish oil, I use the gel caps... I don't get any fish taste.

Also, the reason I mentioned grape juice is that a documentary I watched a couple of years ago said that it was just as good as wine for blood pressure/vasodilation etc. And its fricken delicious especially welches.

n9inchnails

@JohnnyFriday if you like Welches you should try Temptation Concord Grape snuff it tastes just like Welches

JohnnyFriday

Thanks @n9inchnails. Ive got it in the post already.  Im going to mix it with toque peanut butter and make sammiches in my nose.

Harlequin

@JohnnyFriday ......dude, that is brilliant.

OscarWabbit

I eat tons of tuna and anchovies. Every day. I rarely cook without them so I think I have the fish oil intake I need. I have in the past also had an aspirin regimen. I go through phases of aspirin use because as helpful as it can be, it's a heavy drug on the gastric system.

When I gave up heavy use of alcohol, suddenly, my doctor became very worried. My BP was 180/100. He was amazed I hadn't stroked out. Once a week or two had passed, my BP dropped to 130/80. If you're a heavy drinker, make sure you seek your doctors help. He will closely monitor your BP.

JohnnyFriday

You'll hve to read the fat content of your fish to get an idea of how much oil you're actually getting(tuna in oil is not packaged in fish oil as I recall, so it will be misleading).  Also, watch out for mercury,  I love tuna as well, but im a little scared if the mercury.

[Deleted User]

Holy crap what a bunch of replies this morning guys! Many many thanks :)

I am already on medicine now  and I already use 2 Fish-oil a day, 2 multi-vitamins, and some others. I guess I also need to give it some time, and RELAX about it :) I just want keep snuffing to keep my need for nicotine under control. I just started running again, nothing crazy - Just 30 minutes every other day on a slow pace to build it up again. I almost quit drinking totally .. which already makes me feel much better.


Thanks again guys!

[Deleted User]

And @ Whalen : Thanks for your story and advice - I will talk to my doctor again. I hope you are well and  keep well these days.

OscarWabbit

Just got back from my GPs. Asked for a BP test.

Right arm: 138/81
Left arm: 127/78

Excellent results.

I'm so glad I gave up smoking and boozing!!!

furious

Great to hear all this good info from others with HBP. Mine is very bad unmedicated averaging around 160/100. With meds (atenolol, HCTZ, and aldactadize) it runs about 130/85. Testing has ruled everything possible out, so I will most likely be on these meds indefinitely. Losing weight should lower BP some more, but I don't think it will be enough to go off the meds. It is frustrating to deal with this issue at age 35, but I think about my father, grandfather, and others who had absolutely no idea what was going on inside of their bodies until it was too late. By taking better care of myself I am honoring those that went before me with this disease and being a better father to my sons.

Dogwalla

I'm on a blood pressure med for headache control even though mine wasn't really elevated enough to medicate.  Perhaps giving up cigs will get rid of the headaches if I get off the med.

[Deleted User]

Well said @Furious , respect.

JohnnyFriday

The only headaches I get are sinus related. And smoking/caffeine can really get the withdrawal headaches going. 

Theres a really cool documentary on Netflix Instant called "Forks over Knives".  Now I can't argue for or against the data presented, But their lack of financial gain/interests always makes me more likely to pay attention.

Hey, Its on hulu for free http://www.hulu.com/watch/279734/forks-over-knives.

bob

diet and alcohol are probably two of the biggest contributiors to ill health. Not only do people eat the wrong things they don't eat enough of the good things. As far as cancer goes it's better to eat plants and be a cigarette smoker then to not eat plants and be a non smoker. Also our lifestyles are too stressfull. It's not that our lives have too much stress but there is not enough of a break from stress. It's constant and people get used to it and it is horrible to the body. Stress is not designed as a lifestyle but as a critical reaction. What am I saying I'am saying take some time to smell the roses expecialy the snuff roses. Meditate or some other such thing that is zero stress for a little while each day. Get out of your life even if just for half an hour a day and you'll live longer. I also highly recomend not watching the news, that garbage is designed to make you worry about everything so that you'll feel like you can't miss an episode. Seriously watching the news regularly increases Blood Pressure. And remember if it's important you'll hear about it. Take it easy and relax. Enjoy life and you'll live longer.

JohnnyFriday

I second not watching the news. What a waste of time.  Seriously, Whitney Houston's death is worthy of 24 hr play by plays? The only news I watch is the Daily Show and Colbert, and Keith Olberman on Current occasionally. 

bob

You can be better informed about what's going on by studying history. :)

[Deleted User]

Nice one Bob. I totally agree, but sometimes it's hard for me to express myself in English. I read a all the books of Eckhart Tolle, and that man opened my eyes on a lot of things. Get out of your mind and stressful situations is something I need to work on. I am seriously am trying to find another job -type at the moment. I'm in Sales now, and I'm sick of it. ( Call numbers, targets, blackberry on 24/7, appointments etc ). But I need to feed a family so I need something else first.

furious

I am trying to find some books to read on reducing stress and adopting new philosophies of living. I find it very hard to get out of myself even for a short period of time. Job stress and marital problems are my main issues right now. Bottom line is that stress manifests in the body in many ways: inflammation, elevated bp, decreased immune response, weight fluctuation, etc. If we can reduce stress we will live longer and be happier. Sorry for the rant, but I feel this is a very important subject. Since taking snuff helps me to cope with reality and reduces stress, I will continue to do so. The momentary elevation of bp is minor compared with the long term effects of lowered stress.

bob

it's freakin hard not to be stressed. That is why it's great if you can take just a break. Spa treatment seem to work well for the ladies. There has to be something as manily to destress with. @ Micheltn my job advice is to tell yourself that because you're determined you will you're going to get out of sales into a better field even if it seems impossible, situations change and oppurtunities become present with time. From my experience the stress of a job isn't doing it so much as it's your life, if you realize that because you say so you're going to be somewhere new then it's not your life. Just my opinion. Either way best of luck to us all.

Dogwalla

I have told many medical professionals that my nicotine consumption isn't going to go away.  It may change forms, but I have no intention of stopping usage anywhere in the foreseeable future.  It's part of my destressing (which I am VARY bad at), and I really just enjoy tobacco.  Cigarettes will have to stop, but I see no reason I can't use oral/nasal tobacco indefinitely.

[Deleted User]

I'm to tell you all that after only not smoking again for 3 full days My BP is at a steady 130/85. I kept snuffing and snusing in moderation and my BP dropped like a stone. If this is not evidence that snuffing /snusing is so much  less harmful then smoking then nothing is. Thanks again for all your stories and wise words, I truly appreciate them all!